Author Topic: Microsoft Surface Pro  (Read 36084 times)

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mithril

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #20 on: Feb 22, 13, 07:26 »
Oh good lord, this is exactly why I told myself I'd stay out of this thread :banghead:  Glad it works for you..
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flatspotting

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #21 on: Feb 22, 13, 08:24 »
I 100% agree it's comparable to both.  It's ridiculous to say it's not - and fighting it IS one or the other is equally ridiculous.  This device replaces laptops, but it also replaces tablets, why not make the comparison.   I used a friends for a few hours who, similar to Jonny, used it to replace his personal laptop and Ipad2, If you use it purely as a tablet when out its great, and in windows classic mode at home as a laptop it's a fantastic machine.  Getting all your panties in an uproar about what to classify it as is insane, how old are you people to get in these constant petty arguments rather than just talk about it. 

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Jonnymooshoo

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #23 on: Feb 22, 13, 11:49 »
I 100% agree it's comparable to both.  It's ridiculous to say it's not - and fighting it IS one or the other is equally ridiculous.  This device replaces laptops, but it also replaces tablets, why not make the comparison.   I used a friends for a few hours who, similar to Jonny, used it to replace his personal laptop and Ipad2, If you use it purely as a tablet when out its great, and in windows classic mode at home as a laptop it's a fantastic machine.  Getting all your panties in an uproar about what to classify it as is insane, how old are you people to get in these constant petty arguments rather than just talk about it. 

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nature boy

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #24 on: Feb 22, 13, 16:29 »
If it's as good as you think it's sales will prove it.

i don't know if i can ever agree with this.  as of late, this seems to be the battle cry of all apple fanbois out there because apple is still selling units so that must mean they're still as good as they once were.

there are a LOT of "good" products out there that didn't sell well (not necessarily tablets or tech) for a variety of reasons.  advertising, poor business decisions, not coming out at the right time/place, etc., but i think probably the biggest is the reputation which the product garners.  the problem with that is many people tout their opinion as fact.  unfortunately the masses buy into the opinion/fact confusion and up the sales for those products that had created good opinions through good advertising, good business decisions, etc.  what i'm saying is the business management of a product doesn't determine how "good" the product is.

the fact of the matter is, the surface offers different features than the macbook air (touch screen, detachable keyboard, ultra portability) and the ipad (expandable memory, external ports, more powerful), making it a very capable machine that could likely (and has as noted) replace laptop/tablet combos.  but the popular opinion out there is that the macbook air and ipad would kill the surface because APPL RULEZ ALL YO. 

it seems like it's no longer good enough to find a product that suits your needs and does it for you, as apparently everyone's an idiot if they're not of the same opinion as the masses.

having said all that, the surface intrigues me.  if it weren't so expensive, i'd totally consider grabbing one to replace my laptop and tablet (also if i were in the market to replace either).

Jonnymooshoo

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #25 on: Feb 22, 13, 16:38 »
Agreed... the Apple fanboys forget too easily that back in the day it was apple that had the small market share... Sales does not equal innovation or quality.

I bought in at iPhone 3g because at that time, Apple was the one innovating and making compelling hardware. Now competition is catching up and unfortunately without Jobs at the helm, Apple doesn't seem to be innovating at the same pace.




mithril

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #26 on: Feb 22, 13, 16:48 »
It's amazing how you all have decided this is somehow an Apple fanboi thing when the real comment was simply that comparing oranges to pears is a meaningless exercise :rolleyes: 

Regarding sales, I still stand by that purely because of the OS you're forced to accept on the Surface.  Like I've said time and time again, with a good OS the Surface would be fantastic device.  Saddled with Win8 it's a fail, hopefully Win9 fixes it like Win7 did for Vista.  Either way, I'm done in this thread... never should have posted in it in the first place  :stupid:
« Last Edit: Feb 22, 13, 16:52 by mithril »
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yvrnycracer

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #27 on: Feb 22, 13, 16:55 »
I bought in at iPhone 3g because at that time, Apple was the one innovating and making compelling hardware. Now competition is catching up and unfortunately without Jobs at the helm, Apple doesn't seem to be innovating at the same pace.

I would expect there are still a few products in the pipeline that were overseen by Steve Jobs

and referencing apple fanbois is of course the pot calling the kettle black. Your unwavering love of windows 8, the nokia 920 and this, you would be a microsoft fanboi and there is nothing wrong with that.

I personally think windows 8 is a piece of garbage, that tile UI is horrible and I am far from saying iPhone is perfect, I use one and we are converting all of our business machines over to iOS/OSX software and I have had far less headaches than I have had for any of my windows setups. I used to love windows. Heck I would even consider buying a BB10 after playing with one, lots of cool features and also have been looking at getting a nexus 4. Cool little device but iPhone will be my primary device for my mobile needs for the foreseeable future.

For me the surface is too expensive for what it is, it's too heavy and clunky and definitely too expensive and I will say it again, windows 8 is a piece of garbage. I will say that microsoft surface users will see better results with this product than any other because microsoft finally has something that they have 100% control over the hardware and software which is very smart.

Oh and... does anyone remember the zune? :toothy:
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nature boy

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #28 on: Feb 22, 13, 16:59 »
It's amazing how you all have decided this is somehow an Apple fanboi thing when the real comment was simply that comparing oranges to pears is a meaningless exercise :rolleyes: 

if that's the case then i don't think the surface compares to the macbook air either.  i think at this point it really is in a class of its own.  not really a laptop, not really a tablet, but a good (from what i can tell) meld of the two at an inbetween price ($150 more than top ipad, $100 less than macbook air).  so your comparison doesn't really add up either. 

either case, my point wasn't about a legit comparison, but of how people (ok, maybe not just apple fanbois, but people in general) seem to think that good sales = good products, when that simply isn't the case.  remember betamax?  lol. 

Jonnymooshoo

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #29 on: Feb 22, 13, 17:23 »
I don't deny the label that I'm a MS fanboy today... just as 6 year's ago I was an Apple Fanboy, and 7 years ago I was a Sony Ericsson fanboy, and 10 years ago I was a Palm fanboy. Given what Google is doing lately with Glass, I wouldn't be surprised if I became a google fanboy by the end of the year

I would say that I'm a technology fanboy and an early adopter.. I enjoy technology and I'm happy to adopt whatever technology seems to be offering the most to meet my needs. I like rooting for the underdog, especially in a category where there are one or two major players, and if the underdog has something compelling and innovative then I enjoy talking about it because it's unfortunate when good technology gets lost in the shuffle or ignored by the lemmings.


lol betamax... dude.. I still have an HD-DVD drive somewhere in my house...

Zune lives on in Windows Phone!  :toothy:

Sabin

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #30 on: Mar 01, 13, 21:41 »
holy fucking shit this thread turned into a trainwreck...

anyways, i'll be picking up a pro sometime soon.  I want something to run movies, and do RC pit duties.  Even if it has 8 pre-loaded, i'll still be able to use the published tweaks to make it look and run like 7.
« Last Edit: Mar 01, 13, 21:42 by Sabin »

Jonnymooshoo

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #31 on: Mar 02, 13, 02:11 »
Will be interested to see what your experience is like. So far a few weeks in the usability has been great... I'm using one note with the pen for all my Note taking now. The handwriting recognition is great.

I'm going to buy a vagcom cable soon and load the software on my pro as well

Mostly I'm just happy that it has replaced a few devices for me and is small enough for me to carry it around everywhere I go. As for windows 8 I find its a perfect fit for the application. Its got great touch interface for tablet mode / entertainment and its got desktop for any serious work I want to do on it.

yvrnycracer

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #32 on: Mar 14, 13, 18:52 »
well...

Quote

Microsoft and its newest Windows 8 operating system have had a rough go since the software was released in October -- unfortunately, the bad press for Windows 8 and the company's Surface tablet continued Friday when a key executive at Samsung spoke out against Microsoft's latest offerings.

In a meeting with reporters Friday, Jun Dong-soo, president of the memory chip division at Samsung, offered his thoughts on the dying PC industry and Microsoft's role in it.

"The global PC industry is steadily shrinking despite the launch of Windows 8," the Samsung executive said, as reported by The Korea Times. "I think the Windows 8 system is no better than the previous Windows Vista platform."

While Windows Vista from 2007 has gone down as one of the worst-reviewed software offerings ever released by Microsoft, Jun's comments aren't far from the truth. According to the numbers, Windows 8 has been adopted at a far slower pace than Windows Vista, and according to StatCounter, there are more computers in the world still running Windows Vista than computers running Windows 8.

"MS’s rollout of its Windows Surface tablet is seeing lackluster demand," Jun continued. "Meanwhile, previous vigorous pitches by Intel and MS for thinner ultra-books simply failed, and I believe that’s mostly because of the less-competitive Windows platform."

While the Samsung executive's comments were harsh, unfortunately for Microsoft, Jun wasn't the only one with bad things to say about Windows 8 and the Surface tablet. Executives at Asus and Acer -- the fourth- and fifth-largest PC makers in the world, respectively -- and even Fujitsu have previously expressed their concerns about the viability of Windows 8 going forward.

"Demand for Windows 8 is not that good right now," Asus CFO David Chang told the Wall Street Journal in November.

"There was not a huge spark in the market," Emmannuel Fromont, president of Acer's Americas division, told The New York Times in December. "It's a slow start, there's no question."

Microsoft's problem is that neither Windows 8 nor the Surface tablet solve the problem of the diminishing role of PCs. Users are relying more on smartphones and tablets rather than full-range PCs, and while Microsoft would not call the Surface a "PC," the Surface is sold at a PC-like prices (expensive) and has PC-like battery life (poor).

The Surface was Microsoft's first stab at hardware, and sales of the device, as well as the operating system, prove that improvements need to be made if Microsoft hopes to offer a possible contender in the post-PC era. The comments from the Samsung executive may have been strong, but they were valuable and highly accurate: If Microsoft should take anyone's advice, it should be Samsung, which has made a veritable mint by investing early and often in smartphone development.

Even though Microsoft's role as the provider of open software has been recently replaced by Google's Android OS, the Redmond, Wash.-based company can still learn a thing or two from the little green robot: New hardware and software is great, but it means nothing unless it's accessible.
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mithril

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #33 on: Mar 14, 13, 20:57 »
Windows 8 has sold significantly less than Vista did in the same time frame every month since launch.  MS tablets haven't sold enough to even appear in market share measurements conducted by comparing mobile web browser usage.  Android 2.1 tablets by comparison have about 0.2% and we know how ancient Android 2.1 is now.  Not exactly a resounding success despite all the raving the Win8 and Surface fans have been doing about how amazing it all is.

As I've said before Win8 will be a great OS, once MS realizes that PC are not tablets or phones and finally fixes (ie ditches) that horrible Metro interface. In other words, like Vista, Win8 will be fixed by retiring it in favour of the next version.
« Last Edit: Mar 14, 13, 21:01 by mithril »
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Sabin

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #34 on: Mar 22, 13, 07:28 »
What I found to be one great feature when I tried it out in the store, was the touch keyboard.  I always use mechanical keyboards so I figured it wouldn't be that great.  But having a keyboard large enough for me to be comfortable with combined with the touch functionality, I was sold.

Jonnymooshoo

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #35 on: Mar 22, 13, 08:29 »
Windows 8 has sold significantly less than Vista did in the same time frame every month since launch.  MS tablets haven't sold enough to even appear in market share measurements conducted by comparing mobile web browser usage.  Android 2.1 tablets by comparison have about 0.2% and we know how ancient Android 2.1 is now.  Not exactly a resounding success despite all the raving the Win8 and Surface fans have been doing about how amazing it all is.

As I've said before Win8 will be a great OS, once MS realizes that PC are not tablets or phones and finally fixes (ie ditches) that horrible Metro interface. In other words, like Vista, Win8 will be fixed by retiring it in favour of the next version.

sigh... it's the same old argument from you. I'll say it again, just because something doesn't have the sales or marketshare doesn't mean that it's an inferior product.

Maybe I'll use an analogy you might understand...

Just because there are more Casio and Timex watches sold in the world doesn't mean that they're better watches than the Steinhart you own and doesn't make your Steinhart any less of a "success" as a product. Some might say that you really like your Steinhart and have posted pictures and talked about it to show others out there who may not be familiar with the watch that there is a quality alternative out there that works for you. Some might say that analogue watches are is old school and digital is the way of the future Some might not like the design, But the fact of the matter is, it's a quality watch that has a great build quality and a design that many people (myself included) find quite attractive however is not for everyone.

Now can you please give up this sales and marketshare argument... it's not even the purpose of my thread.

Me: Hey guys check this out. Try doing this on your iPad

You: Win 8 and Surface pro have lower sales than expected and I don't like the OS 'cause so that means that they suck


Do you see how ridiculous this is?

Oh and by the way, if you are going to make that market share argument what does that say about Apple? Again, high marketshare doesn't always correlate to the best product.



mithril

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #36 on: Mar 22, 13, 08:59 »
Le sigh.....

I'm really not arguing this with you again.  We get it, you're a Win8 fan who loves everything about it and every device it runs on.  That's great. I'm happy for you, really I am.  However......

You are not the typical user and, no matter how badly you want to spin this, Win8 is a product that is under selling even compared to Microsoft's last massive OS failure.  It's also one that most users (ie. the 90% who want "a computer that just works") find difficult, confusing and frustrating to use.  Again, Win8 is technically a very good OS, there's absolutely no questioning that.  It's the Metro UI and this idiotic assumption that phones, tablets and desktops should be all the same that's killing this it.  Period.  Every single industry publication has agreed on this including your precious ZDNet, CNet and TechRepublic.

Microsoft is a business.  Sales and profit numbers are the measure by which success or failure is measured in business.  Win8 and it's associated devices will be considered failures if they don't sell.  That's as simple as it gets.
« Last Edit: Mar 22, 13, 09:09 by mithril »
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nature boy

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #37 on: Mar 22, 13, 11:00 »
I'm really not arguing this with you again.  We get it, you're a Win8 fan who loves everything about it and every device it runs on.  That's great. I'm happy for you, really I am. 

i'm not sure if you actually DO get it...

I don't deny the label that I'm a MS fanboy today... just as 6 year's ago I was an Apple Fanboy, and 7 years ago I was a Sony Ericsson fanboy, and 10 years ago I was a Palm fanboy. Given what Google is doing lately with Glass, I wouldn't be surprised if I became a google fanboy by the end of the year

I would say that I'm a technology fanboy and an early adopter..

what was the point of this thread?  someone wanted to share their experience with a new product.  i, for one, appreciate threads like this because i'm always on the lookout for something new (although i can't afford to buy jack all).  however, you (mithril) have somehow made it into a ms bash fest because YOU don't like it.  ok, many people didn't buy it.  there's no denying that.  so?  does that mean it's crap?  no, all it means is that many people didn't buy it.  i don't see why that's so hard to understand.

mithril

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #38 on: Mar 22, 13, 11:17 »
A "review" thread that starts itself off by a self-admitted fanboi bashing everything else that isn't his chosen poison and you're surprised when other people that aren't slavishly devoted to pumping one particular paradigm have chosen to point out the fact that the product is underperforming and almost certain to be considered a bigger failure than the last big joke from Redmond?  Have you not been on Dubberz for a while? :rofl:

ok, many people didn't buy it.  there's no denying that.  so?  does that mean it's crap?  no, all it means is that many people didn't buy it.

Microsoft is a business.  Sales and profit numbers are the measure by which success or failure is measured in business.  Win8 and it's associated devices will be considered failures if they don't sell.  That's as simple as it gets.

i don't see why that's so hard to understand.

Agreed.

To be clear, I'm not saying it sucks because I dislike it... I'm saying the market is making Vista look like a homerun by comparison, and if Vista was a wide acknowldged failure of epic proportions what does that make Win8?  The reason Win8 and it's devices are not being embraced in the mainstream is the horrible GUI and Microsoft's instance on forcing every user to relearn a new way of interacting with Windows when that same user simply didn't see an problem with, or need to change, the old interface.
« Last Edit: Mar 22, 13, 12:02 by mithril »
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Jonnymooshoo

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Re: Microsoft Surface Pro
« Reply #39 on: Mar 22, 13, 12:13 »
If we did things the old ways and never embraced doing things differently then we would still be using text interface instead of a GUI.

Your logic is flawed just admit it already. By your reasoning you're basing the quality of the Audi you drive on the market share it holds. Maybe you should sell your A6 and get a Cadillac seeing as it's a much more successful vehicle that has been adopted by the masses.



(As a side note, I USE Windows 8 on my Touch enabled Surface Pro. There is no doubt in my mind that it is the BEST OS for this application. I spend 90% of my time in desktop mode for productivity when at work, and when I'm at home the other 10% of the time I'm in tablet mode and have the touch interface for casual browsing and entertainment. The success of this OS has absolutely no bearing on weather or not it has been adopted by the masses 5 months into it's existence. You've just fixated on the Start Screen Metro user interface. The Start Screen is as much the OS as the Start Menu was for Windows 7. It's just the interface to launch the program you want.. it's not the OS in and of itself. If you use Win 8 everyday you would know this)