Author Topic: Accelerated depreciation / diminished value updates (May 28, 2018) see last page  (Read 16510 times)

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85jettaguy

  • Posts: 170
    • The Fournier Auto Group
Updated August 3, 2015 - Updates on last page

CBC Show on accelerated depreciation/diminished value (linked updated August 3, 2015)

check it out http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/Shows/Marketplace/Season+38/ID/1803916011/
« Last Edit: May 29, 18, 10:43 by 85jettaguy »
Past VWs
1985 Jetta, 1985 GTI, 1990 Jetta, 1992 Jetta Coupe,
1998 Passat, 2001 Jetta GLX, 2002 Passat

geForce

  • Posts: 231
Oh man, I really hope you're successful with this.  I don't want to be pessimistic about it, but I think this is a near impossible fight with ICBC, but if you're successful, hopefully that will set some sort of precedence for everyone else afterwards.

In my previous car, I was hit on 3 separate occassions which were minor (abour $2000-3000 damage), and then finally got hit a 4th time for a total of $15000 damage (my car was worth $17,500 at the time).  They wanted to fix my car for $15,000 and I told ICBC to screw off, cuz I had already been hit 3 times before and if it gets fixed this time, my car would be worth only about a 1/4 of market value.  I tried to invoke the Accelerated Depreciation thing, and even contacted about 2 or 3 lawyers...  no luck.  ICBC lawyers won't touch it unless it's a personal injury claim...  accelerated depreciation damage is too involved and too much work.

Luckily, I got ICBC to write off my car, but if not I don't know what I would've done.

We are starting to do work with ICBC Lawyers and Accelerated Depreciation of Asset claims.  We touching base with as many lawyers as we can to see if we can be of service.
What I'm looking for is if anyone here knows of an ICBC Lawyer personally that they would be willing to refer them to me?

Please let me know
Rob
604-568-3824
robfournier@cornerstoneconcepts.ca


85jettaguy

  • Posts: 170
    • The Fournier Auto Group
Our company provides the reports to ICBC personal injury lawyers on the behalf of their clients, so they can sue for damages.  We write the report declaring the before and after damage values and the lawyers use this in court.

I am really surprised about how hidden this claim process is.  I deal with an lawyer in vancouver that can give advice on how to proceed with these claims.

I'm trying to contact other lawyers offices to offer our services.  i think we will be offering these services to the general public as well.

Past VWs
1985 Jetta, 1985 GTI, 1990 Jetta, 1992 Jetta Coupe,
1998 Passat, 2001 Jetta GLX, 2002 Passat

85jettaguy

  • Posts: 170
    • The Fournier Auto Group
For those who don't know this is what Accelerated Depreciation Claims are:

When your vehicle is damaged in an accident, which is not your fault, and significant repairs have to be done on the vehicle, we all know that it is more difficult to sell your vehicle down the road because perspective purchasers are often cautious about buying a vehicle involved in a significant accident.

If you have to accept less money when selling your vehicle because it was involved in an accident, you have suffered a loss called “accelerated depreciation”.

Unfortunately, ICBC has taken the view that they will not compensate anyone for accelerated depreciation claims except in rare circumstances.  The policy reason behind this is obvious.  If ICBC paid everyone for accelerated depreciation the amount of compensation paid out to individuals involved in accidents would skyrocket because pretty well everyone involved in more than just a minor accident and who is not at fault for the accident, would make a claim. There are a few instances where accelerated depreciation claims have gone to Court but the frequency of such litigated claims is relatively limited.  Generally speaking, the Court is not going to award any damages for accelerated depreciation unless there is direct evidence supporting an actual loss suffered by an individual.

In order to establish an accelerated depreciation claim, one must show that he/she actually sold or is in the process of selling the damaged vehicle at a reduced amount.  The fact that you may sell your vehicle in the future would not carry the day in Court.

The other thing that is necessary to prove an accelerated depreciation claim is to have an expert opinion, which specifically says that the existence of the damage to the vehicle has resulted in a lower selling value for the vehicle.  Alternatively, direct evidence on this point may carry the day in Court.  An example of the direct evidence would be testimony from the purchaser who said he/she paid less because of the previous damage to the vehicle.

If you want to pursue an accelerated depreciation claim, ICBC is almost inviting you to proceed to trial on this point because of their policy not to pay such claims.  You must have very strong direct evidence supporting a loss.  In most cases, proving such loss is very difficult.

The fact that these losses are generally less than $10,000 makes it uneconomic to hire a lawyer.  If you want to pursue the claim and believe you have direct evidence to prove a loss to you, you can always pursue the claim on your own in Small Claims Court. ICBC will likely hire a lawyer to fight you, however.

Source: ICBCadvice.com is operated and owned by Stainton Ventures Ltd. By accessing this web site, you are agreeing to be bound by this web site's Terms of Use / Disclaimer. If you do not accept the Terms of Use and Disclaimer, do not use this web site. ICBCadvice.com is an online help service offered to ICBC claimants.
Past VWs
1985 Jetta, 1985 GTI, 1990 Jetta, 1992 Jetta Coupe,
1998 Passat, 2001 Jetta GLX, 2002 Passat

tbird

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injury to dignity

TARGET

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So now we can all look forward to our insurance skytrocketing becuase no only will everyone and their dog bleed ICBC for personal injuries that may not exist, but will also be sueing for the fact their 91 ford taurus will be harder to sell?
Joy.....
-Hellgti is some kind of bird...
dan said:
i wouldn't doubt that the mods have the site set up to email them when you post

ckone

  • Posts: 3305
So now we can all look forward to our insurance skytrocketing becuase no only will everyone and their dog bleed ICBC for personal injuries that may not exist, but will also be sueing for the fact their 91 ford taurus will be harder to sell?
Joy.....

In the case of my bosses car - 2006 Acura TL was rear ended badly, and caused about $20,000 worth of damage (lets just say a whole new rear end was grafted onto the car) and the black book value was $24,000. In this case it would have been less costly to ICBC just to write off the car then to have repaired it. You cannot tell me in the context of $20,000 a 5% increase in cost is going to drive up our premiums that much. I think that this should be applied case by case because in my bosses situation, he will never get the value of the car back when he tries to sell it.
I am the sites Red Foreman - Dumbass
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RONDAL

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accelerated depreciation of an asset is pretty standard in any other type of property insurance.  why ICBC feels the need to cheap out on it is beyond me
TEAM HIGHSCHOOL
I find intelligence inhibits my ability to enjoy dubberz.  It's like playing chess at a go-fish tournament

85jettaguy

  • Posts: 170
    • The Fournier Auto Group
So now we can all look forward to our insurance skytrocketing becuase no only will everyone and their dog bleed ICBC for personal injuries that may not exist, but will also be sueing for the fact their 91 ford taurus will be harder to sell?
Joy.....

I hardly doubt that older vehicles will be worth the time and engergy for these claims, but for the owner of a 2005 VW that was worth 20,000 and had a $17800 hit and was repaired, i think its worth it to them, especially when the car is worth nothing now and they owe close to $15000.  I think its great that this even exists especially if you were hit by someone while minding your own business. 
« Last Edit: Dec 22, 08, 17:59 by 85jettaguy »
Past VWs
1985 Jetta, 1985 GTI, 1990 Jetta, 1992 Jetta Coupe,
1998 Passat, 2001 Jetta GLX, 2002 Passat

jettag60

  • Posts: 8376
i think in some cases this is fair...

my friend was in an accident that wasn't his fault...$10000 damage to his 3 year old mazada 3, went to sell it 6 months later and took a hit vs other cars in the market for about $5000

why should he loose that money?

RONDAL

  • Posts: 18835
  • Smurf Tamer
for those that think this will somehow raise rates, if newer cars come in and are close to write off there are often things found and done to the vehicle to ensure it is actually written off. 
TEAM HIGHSCHOOL
I find intelligence inhibits my ability to enjoy dubberz.  It's like playing chess at a go-fish tournament


germanspec

  • Posts: 1374
Oh man, I really hope you're successful with this.  I don't want to be pessimistic about it, but I think this is a near impossible fight with ICBC, but if you're successful, hopefully that will set some sort of precedence for everyone else afterwards.

In my previous car, I was hit on 3 separate occassions which were minor (abour $2000-3000 damage), and then finally got hit a 4th time for a total of $15000 damage (my car was worth $17,500 at the time).  They wanted to fix my car for $15,000 and I told ICBC to screw off, cuz I had already been hit 3 times before and if it gets fixed this time, my car would be worth only about a 1/4 of market value.  I tried to invoke the Accelerated Depreciation thing, and even contacted about 2 or 3 lawyers...  no luck.  ICBC lawyers won't touch it unless it's a personal injury claim...  accelerated depreciation damage is too involved and too much work.

Luckily, I got ICBC to write off my car, but if not I don't know what I would've done.


Just because your car had four claims does not mean that its market value is a 1/4 of what it should be.  However, generally a big claim will reduce a cars value by about 20 percent.  If you own a 20K car that means you would loose about 4K in market value.

TARGET

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what the fuck are you smoking? You would spend 16k on a 20k car that has had 4 claims ALL over 2k and one for 15k? I really hope the answer is meth, becuase i have a bridge to sell you if that's not the case....
-Hellgti is some kind of bird...
dan said:
i wouldn't doubt that the mods have the site set up to email them when you post

OrdinaryGirl

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what the fuck are you smoking? You would spend 16k on a 20k car that has had 4 claims ALL over 2k and one for 15k? I really hope the answer is meth, becuase i have a bridge to sell you if that's not the case....

I would not spend that much on a car with that big of a dec on it. There are the statistics used to arrive at the price, and then there's the real world. It would have to be a really, really special car to garner full price like that.
Life is more fun in a wagon. Or at least you can take more stuff!

germanspec

  • Posts: 1374
what the fuck are you smoking? You would spend 16k on a 20k car that has had 4 claims ALL over 2k and one for 15k? I really hope the answer is meth, becuase i have a bridge to sell you if that's not the case....

I have a little more experience in this area then you, I have been selling cars that have been in accidents for quite some time and know what kind of hit they take.  I think you are the one smoking, so STFU.  First of all, you have been driving real pieces of shit for most of your short career and have no REAL WORLD experience how claims affect newer more expensive cars.  How many cars valued over 20K have you sold yourself?  Probably none, thank you very much.

A lot of you don't realize that any small fender bender on a newer car translates into a 2K+ claim, which means that a high percentage of these cars have decs over 2K.  Anyway, any car with a bigger accident will take a 20-25% plunge in value.  If a car is being sold for half its value, then either it had shitty repairs or has other problems. 

If you think that you will buy a car for 1/4 its retail value just because it had some claims you are dreaming. 

strupo

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I have a little more experience in this area then you, I have been selling cars that have been in accidents for quite some time and know what kind of hit they take.  I think you are the one smoking, so STFU.  First of all, you have been driving real pieces of shit for most of your short career and have no REAL WORLD experience how claims affect newer more expensive cars.  How many cars valued over 20K have you sold yourself?  Probably none, thank you very much.

A lot of you don't realize that any small fender bender on a newer car translates into a 2K+ claim, which means that a high percentage of these cars have decs over 2K.  Anyway, any car with a bigger accident will take a 20-25% plunge in value.  If a car is being sold for half its value, then either it had shitty repairs or has other problems. 

If you think that you will buy a car for 1/4 its retail value just because it had some claims you are dreaming. 


there is a difference between seeing a $2K+ claim, and finding out it was a fender bender and finding a %2K+ claim, and the current owner claiming that it was no big deal and that the $20K spent on repairs were mostly for cosmetic' damage

which one would you be willing to take for $2000 off the regular resale price
OrdinaryGirl
I got so distracted by my own boobs today I almost rear ended someone.

germanspec

  • Posts: 1374

there is a difference between seeing a $2K+ claim, and finding out it was a fender bender and finding a %2K+ claim, and the current owner claiming that it was no big deal and that the $20K spent on repairs were mostly for cosmetic' damage

which one would you be willing to take for $2000 off the regular resale price

Its not what I would take or what I would not take, its the reality of the market.  Most people are willing to live with a car that has a couple small claims, no big deal.  There is a small percentage of the market that accepts REBUILT/SALVAGE/BIG CLAIMS cars, these are people that want a fair discount.  What is a fair discount you ask?  Well currently its about 20-30% percent, that may change in 10 years who knows.
It doesn't even matter what I or you think is fair, the market dictates what the price should be.

Its really a percentage thing, I will give you a couple of examples from cars that we are selling or have sold.

2007 Bentley GT - REBUILT
Market value appx. $140,000
Our price $100,000
Discount $40,000 or about 25%

2004 VW Jetta TDI - REBUILT
Market value appx. $15,000
Our price $11,000
Discount $4,000 or about 25%

On more expensive cars there is ofcourse a bigger discount but percentage wise its about the same.  REBUILT/SALVAGE cars drop about 20-30% in value on average.  If you have a car with a huge claim on it, it will lose value similar to a SALVAGE car so about 20%.  However cars with big claims that still have a clean title are always selling for a bit more.  If you have one or a couple small claims as long as they are properly fixed they should not affect the car's value too much, maybe about 10-15%.

There are other factors that also have an effect such as, who did the repairs, are the repairs done properly, is the car OK, who is selling the car, warranty, documentation of repairs, pictures of damage, etc....

fasthopper

  • Posts: 427
How many of you have been to the body shop at annacis auto terminal where the new cars come in, if you've bought a new car there's a possibility you've gotten a previously repaired vehicle and paid the same price you would have paid for one that was delivered with no issues along the way. There is no record of these events available to the public. My point is accidents happen but because we have insurance we are fortunate enough to make the best of a bad situation. I'm sure most of us go to an autoplan agent and purchase our insurance, maybe some of us ask the agent a few questions about what coverage I have or should have, but how many of us ask for a copy of the terms for which the product we are buying and how many of us have ever read that booklet they will give you. I couldn't tell you exactly what it is that my insurance covers and doesn't, it's unfortunate that most of us won't find that out until we need to make a claim. I like to think that my insurance will compensate me for my loss, but it is apparent that as all of us are unique we all have a different perspective of what loss is. I imagine that if you could prove your loss to a judge in a court of law than you probably have a case, but the burden is on you. if you had gone to a dealer and made a contract to trade your car in for a certain amount and then are involved in an accident before being able to carry out the trade in and the dealer is telling you they will not pay you the agreed upon trade in value because of the repaired accident damage, then maybe you have a valid loss. If you are like me and have an older car that serves you well and you probably aren't planning on selling it any time soon and are involved in an accident, your car is repaired and the whole things sucks but at the end of the day you get your car back fixed, have you suffered a loss as far as accelerated depreciation is concerned? You tell me.
« Last Edit: Feb 12, 10, 23:35 by fasthopper »

85jettaguy

  • Posts: 170
    • The Fournier Auto Group
so I'm bringing this back from the dead.

I re-read the last posts and i'm only posting this because it really is valuable to some people.

I realize that some people will take advantage of this type of report and i think that the courts will filter through those select few, but for some there is a real loss.

Where the courts have been awarding accelerated depreciation, is in the instance where your car was damaged and then fixed and then you proceed to sell it.

I have a client who has a 2007 Tacoma crew cab trd with 40,000km 4wd and his truck was just sitting parked and someone hit it causing $10,000 in damages.  Well he's now wanting to sell it becuase he wants a new car and he didn't realize that when he goes to sell it it will be worth less.

What ICBC and the courts want to see is a definitive loss.  So when he goes to trade his truck in and the dealership gives him less for the truck he can show his financial loss through a bill of sale and an accelerated depreciation report.  A report that states this is what the car was worth before and this is what its worth after the accident.

So for people in this situation where they actually sustain a loss accelearted depreciation is very valuable.

The higher the value of vehicle and the value of damage, the more the loss.
Past VWs
1985 Jetta, 1985 GTI, 1990 Jetta, 1992 Jetta Coupe,
1998 Passat, 2001 Jetta GLX, 2002 Passat