Author Topic: Hitting the track  (Read 9484 times)

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Gerg

  • Posts: 4564
Hitting the track
« on: Nov 24, 16, 09:29 »
Hey guys, I've had a real itch lately to get out for some track (road course) time in 2017 with my mk2 vrt after some brake and wheel/tire upgrades.

Anyone else going to try it out?
'92 GTI VRT - '93.5 Corrado VR6  - '04 R32 - '01 GTI 24V

hellgti

  • Posts: 10609
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #1 on: Nov 24, 16, 09:35 »
I'd love to. After driving super cars in Vegas I've been putting serious thought into building something to track. I worked with a guy who did track events at Pitt airport.
Take care of each other out there. everyone here is my brother, let's make sure everybody goes home safe. Alright, let's stomp some heads. - Scott Vogel

Stephan Schmidt

  • Posts: 2286
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #2 on: Nov 24, 16, 10:03 »
Road Racing is VERY expensive and requires a big time commitment, hence why a lot of people don't do it.  A track day (especially at mission which is very hard on your brakes) costs you $200 ish for the day, 50% of your brakes and tires :P

Membership to a club is typical as well, about $25-50 / year.

The ridge in Washington is about $250 USD / day, plus it takes a day to get there, over night hotel costs, fuel, etc.. plan on a single lapping weekend to cost you $6-800 Canadian plus all of the wear and possible breakage on your car.

Not swaying you one way or another as road race prepped cars are my favorite, but its just so darn expensive!

najob

  • Posts: 4139
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #3 on: Nov 24, 16, 10:25 »
Just buy a Golf R, it's VW's supercar.
DAS. Expect nothing less.

aba16v

  • Posts: 955
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #4 on: Nov 24, 16, 10:27 »
Just buy a Golf R, it's VW's supercar.

Might as well save your money and play gran turismo with an electric steering wheel.

Stephan Schmidt

  • Posts: 2286
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #5 on: Nov 24, 16, 10:38 »
Just buy a Golf R, it's VW's supercar.

LOL - At least the north america's version!

However I'd rather have a track ready porsche, lotus, mustang, nsx, 240, miata or whatever else for the price of a stock Golf R. :yes:
« Last Edit: Nov 24, 16, 10:39 by Stephan Schmidt »

killerb09

  • Posts: 1606
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #6 on: Nov 24, 16, 10:39 »
Years ago when I lived in NS and talked to some regular AMP race goers it was thought I would dive into the racing there.

After talking with lots of big name racers(at that time in NS) it was concluded never to track a daily driver car, never track your only car and keep a good stock of Rotors/pads/tires/wheels/body parts.

They all were running dedicated race cars to run at the track, trailered to/from and were never street driven at all. 

I took their advice and stayed on the sidelines watching.

Stephan Schmidt

  • Posts: 2286
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #7 on: Nov 24, 16, 10:49 »
Years ago when I lived in NS and talked to some regular AMP race goers it was thought I would dive into the racing there.

After talking with lots of big name racers(at that time in NS) it was concluded never to track a daily driver car, never track your only car and keep a good stock of Rotors/pads/tires/wheels/body parts.

They all were running dedicated race cars to run at the track, trailered to/from and were never street driven at all. 

I took their advice and stayed on the sidelines watching.


I think that makes sense if you are wheel to wheel racing in a series, but lapping days can be done with any car really. 

But expect to go through tires, brakes, and fluids ever 1-2 track days.

Gerg

  • Posts: 4564
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #8 on: Nov 24, 16, 10:57 »
I think that makes sense if you are wheel to wheel racing in a series, but lapping days can be done with any car really. 

But expect to go through tires, brakes, and fluids ever 1-2 track days.
I was talking with a member from here about some time attack/lapping days.
Much cheaper and not as harsh on the car. After all what good is a summer toy car if you don't use it?

I have a hard time getting out to mission street legal drag races and I behave on the street so I can keep my drivers licence/career
'92 GTI VRT - '93.5 Corrado VR6  - '04 R32 - '01 GTI 24V

Qogu

  • Posts: 432
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #9 on: Nov 24, 16, 11:06 »

aba16v

  • Posts: 955
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #10 on: Nov 24, 16, 11:15 »
Years ago when I lived in NS and talked to some regular AMP race goers it was thought I would dive into the racing there.

After talking with lots of big name racers(at that time in NS) it was concluded never to track a daily driver car, never track your only car and keep a good stock of Rotors/pads/tires/wheels/body parts.

They all were running dedicated race cars to run at the track, trailered to/from and were never street driven at all. 

I took their advice and stayed on the sidelines watching.

X2, vantage motors (the Truro VW dealership)  was going through ~10 transmissions a season with their two mk3 race cars, and at least a set of tires a weekend. They've since moved to a tsi so I imagine those bills have gone up. AMP is a bit more serious of a track than mission though.

I would go for a lower power car personally, NA 16V with good cooling and brakes. The faster you go the faster stuff breaks, and having a slower car will amplify your driving mistakes as you might carry them through to following corners, whereas with big power you could be back up to speed.

« Last Edit: Nov 24, 16, 11:16 by aba16v »

killerb09

  • Posts: 1606
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #11 on: Nov 24, 16, 11:20 »
X2, vantage motors (the Truro VW dealership)  was going through ~10 transmissions a season with their two mk3 race cars, and at least a set of tires a weekend. They've since moved to a tsi so I imagine those bills have gone up. AMP is a bit more serious of a track than mission though.

I would go for a lower power car personally, NA 16V with good cooling and brakes. The faster you go the faster stuff breaks, and having a slower car will amplify your driving mistakes as you might carry them through to following corners, whereas with big power you could be back up to speed.

It was McNutt racing guys I was talking to as well as a professor from UNB.  this would have been late 90's Early 2000's when everyone there was looking for the CRX to run fast....I think they still do some pretty nice lap days and driving schools but it's been a good 10-12 years since I was there.

Stephan Schmidt

  • Posts: 2286
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #12 on: Nov 24, 16, 11:32 »
I would go for a lower power car personally, NA 16V with good cooling and brakes. The faster you go the faster stuff breaks, and having a slower car will amplify your driving mistakes as you might carry them through to following corners, whereas with big power you could be back up to speed.

The answer is always Miata *puts flame suit on* lol

Qogu

  • Posts: 432
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #13 on: Nov 24, 16, 11:50 »
The answer is always Miata *puts flame suit on* lol
Having an Na miata and going to a track. Safe to say someone at the track has a part if you break it  :thumbup:

Stephan Schmidt

  • Posts: 2286
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #14 on: Nov 24, 16, 12:51 »
Having an Na miata and going to a track. Safe to say someone at the track has a part if you break it  :thumbup:

True!  But the funny thing is, they don't break much! LOL

Qogu

  • Posts: 432
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #15 on: Nov 24, 16, 14:36 »
True!  But the funny thing is, they don't break much! LOL

LOL  :thumbup:

syncroboy

  • Posts: 3058
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #16 on: Dec 01, 16, 23:41 »
Are tracks days easier on your car than actual racing?  There's no definitive answer because it depends on a few factors:

1.  Yes it's hard on tires and brakes for sure.  Best to have a second set of rims/tires for track only use.  A nice sticky compound like the Bridgestione RE71-R is the hot tire these days.  Bleed your brakes before/after each track day.  Especially if your car has a lack of air flow around the wheels/brakes.

2. Is it hard on bodywork?  Depends how hard you push it. Depends where you're running.  Mission is like driving an Indycar street circuit.  The walls are close.  Where as places like Portland or the Ridge have lots of run-off room should you have an incident.  You cannot break the laws of physics.  Once you lose traction, you're along for the ride.

3. Mechanical wear and tear - engine and trans.  Really depends how smooth of a driver you are and how mechanically sympathetic your technique is.  Do you slam in/out of gearshifts? 


"..here at Dubberz.com we like to live in the 60's where cars are cool, fitness is awesome, drinking is good for you, and womanizing is encouraged."  TARGET

Madmylo

  • Posts: 301
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #17 on: Dec 02, 16, 16:30 »
Whats the story with mission raceway? Can anyone just land out and say I want to do a lap or does the car need safety features like roll bars special tires etc.. Also do you need helmet etc? Probably an easily googled question but hey im a newb to BC.
Mk6 GTI
16v Mk2 Scirocco

The Producer

  • Posts: 429
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #18 on: Mar 11, 17, 10:18 »
you can hit mission with many of the local car clubs. I did my first mission days with BMWCCBC who partner with Driving Unlimited instructors.

You don't have to be a member to participate.

Most of the other car clubs offer similar starter days.

Join revscene if you haven't already - there are links to the speed syndicate days at the Ridgge in washington. They have a first timers group also

Let's get some dubberz track days going!

Madmylo

  • Posts: 301
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #19 on: Mar 11, 17, 14:18 »
Im 100% down for a track day!
Mk6 GTI
16v Mk2 Scirocco

William

  • Testers
  • Posts: 881
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #20 on: Mar 11, 17, 18:05 »
I'm definately looking at autox this year. A buddy of mine was telling me of a small group he's part of that gets together at the air strip.

I've been warned of high costs on wear items. At my low level of driving technique is my main goal so $20 Honda brakes at $70 tires are the plan.

On day track days...
'93 Si. - VTEC Purgatory

syncroboy

  • Posts: 3058
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #21 on: Apr 27, 17, 13:25 »
I'm definately looking at autox this year. A buddy of mine was telling me of a small group he's part of that gets together at the air strip.

I've been warned of high costs on wear items. At my low level of driving technique is my main goal so $20 Honda brakes at $70 tires are the plan.

On day track days...

IF it's the Boundary Bay Precision Driving Group you're referring to....don't bother.  The venue is tiny, and you never get out of first gear.  There's no actual instruction and you just end up learning a bunch of bad habits.  I "helped out" last September at one of their events and ended up being a lead instructor.  The guy who runs the events seems to love bad-mouthing the real autocross programs happening on at Pitt Meadows Airport.

vcmc.ca or ubcscc.com are the only places you need to go for autox.
"..here at Dubberz.com we like to live in the 60's where cars are cool, fitness is awesome, drinking is good for you, and womanizing is encouraged."  TARGET

jrez

  • Posts: 68
  • broken airplanes = race car budget
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #22 on: Apr 30, 17, 23:04 »
10 transmissions a year??? Don't know WTF is wrong there. An 020 in a mk 1 is good for 5+ years at Mission road course and thats probably the toughest one in the PNW on brakes, bearings also.
Street pads are useless on the track and tire were is dependent on how you drive and the tire treadwear. Race spec Kumho's with 90 treadwear will do 3 race weekends comfortably at Mission. Most street tires are 200 + treadwear rating(harder).
1983 IP2 race scirocco,1986 m52e30 bmw
2006 f250 edge tuned superduty diesel
1973 superbeetle future trackday toy

aba16v

  • Posts: 955
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 17, 08:46 »
fully gutted caged Mk3s with custom strut towers, slicks, ~3.5 degrees of camber with a lot of toe, and a much faster circuit ( http://www.atlanticmotorsportpark.com/index.php/track/). AMP is about 300m longer, in a bigger space, 30m of elevation change, and they were mostly doing competitive endurance races. Trailer down both cars with parts, other staff had their own track cars too, not your casual weekend user and just constant abuse for six months autox and circuit racing. Was pretty shocked myself, but basically every MK3 is off the road out there so parts are near worthless and they're quick to change.

Nobody in their right mind should be breaking parts like that. Should keep a close eye on temps/pressure and do appropriate cool down laps as required.

jrez

  • Posts: 68
  • broken airplanes = race car budget
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 17, 12:35 »
That still seems excessive. If anything, I'd expect the 020 to be gernading out of any of them, especially with 100% Mission usage. At AMP, there's plenty of straighter sections, particularly the lower back straight, where there is lots of airflow for a good duration. I remember a mk3 dominating when I used to go there 5-6 years ago. Fantastic track, but it was getting really bumpy. Loved the track garage and hoist.

What oil were they using in the trans? 
1983 IP2 race scirocco,1986 m52e30 bmw
2006 f250 edge tuned superduty diesel
1973 superbeetle future trackday toy

aba16v

  • Posts: 955
Re: Hitting the track
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 17, 17:32 »
For sure, I bet drunken burnouts were responsible for a few of those, know they got some serious abuse. Meanwhile I think Dave Withrow (owner of the 500WHP orange mk1 "silly rabbit") Got 3 drag seasons from an O20 running it around ~350WHP on an aba16v. Gears were pretty smooth by the end of it though. No idea on oil, likely either stock or gm synchromesh.

Certainly miss having space out there, lots of good back roads too. Will try to get Malone to bring the 335D and caged 2.9L GT35 MK3 out this summer, assuming they're still running by the time I'm done with them  :suspicious:
« Last Edit: May 01, 17, 17:34 by aba16v »