Author Topic: MK1 16V CIS-E Swap Wiring  (Read 97 times)

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g60syncro

  • Posts: 446
MK1 16V CIS-E Swap Wiring
« on: Oct 07, 19, 21:28 »
Hi there

The Car - 1983 Jetta Coupe From California (The one with more wires than all of yours...)

- 1.8 16V PL, with a Scirocco wiring harness

Disclaimer: Iím an Electrician by trade, and a ďMechanicĒ for a hobby. While I can read and understand the schematics for the most part, the nature of automotive electrics is backwards to the way youíd execute AC wiring in buildings. Iíve done hours of research but, Iím hesitant to trust old Vortex posts which may not pertain to my issues. ie: not all swaps are the same.

Also - This is my project. I take full responsibility for my own fuck ups, and wonít go blaming others and trying to sue them if Iíve taken advice that turns out to be inaccurate.

Furthermore, if thereís some post that Iíve so blindly unseen that answers all these questions (Which is more than likely the case) a link would be appreciated.

And now for something completely similar...

So initially the plan for my 16v swap was to go CIS Basic/Knock box but found out through research that you have to deal with a temperamental system that potentially stalls unless youíre throttling the pedal, or have a high idle. While Iím sure it works for some just fine, I was wanting a normally idling car that starts in the cold if need be. So seeing how I had everything for a CIS-E swap, I figure Iíd just bite the bullet and figure it out. 

Consulting my Bentley Iíve rung out my harness to make sure everything matches with the wiring diagram how it should, and that there are no issues with the physical wires/connections themselves. Everything matches up fortunately but as would be obvious there are wires that need to tie in past the firewall and into relays.

Listed below is what Iíve come across that needs addressing. If some of you vets have some insight into mistakes Iíve made, or things Iíve over looked, it would be appreciated.

1)  Pin #10 from the Knock Sensor Controller runs to what would be the MK2 Fuel Pump Relay, and fires the coil. Looks like that would be necessary if it was in a MK2, but from the looks of it in a mk1 it latches during cranking. Doesnít look like this pin is needed for my application. Correct me if Iím wrong.

2) A group of black wires that run down stream from an unswitched(???) 10 amp fuse, and branch off to Pin #5 on the Knock Sensor Controller, Pin #1 of the ECU, and to the common point of the Throttle switches.

Does this need to be switched, or can I run an inline fuse holder/10a fuse to this group of wires. Probably a better way Iím sure. If there is please let me know.

3) Now these next two things is where Iím sure might work but may come across as hokey, or not particularly ideal...

3.1) O2 sensor heater: I need switched power that runs constant after ignition. I can see in my MK2 Bentley that this runs on the switched leg of the Fuel Pump Relay. In the MK1 the Auxiliary Air Valve runs off of the switched leg of the Fuel Pump Relay as well. Iím thinking that the AAV and the O2 heater are small resistive heating loads that run constantly, and would more than likely be negligible loads, relatively speaking, and are veritably the same setup that would suit the O2 heaterís needs (even has the same female connector). Correct me if Iím wrong.

3.2) Pin #24 ECU: Now hereís where Iím not sure what to do. MK2 Bentley says I need switched power from the starter relay, not sure if thatís timed as it is on the same leg as cold start valve, which is my upstanding as being timed. Is this something thatís only needed at the beginning of ignition? Would I be safe splicing on to the leg of the MK1ís Cold Start Valve feed?

Anyways, discussion is more than welcome. Thereís a light at the end of the tunnel, and this seems like the last major hurtle.

Cheers       
No time for the old in/out love. I've just come to read the metre.

Autohau5

  • Posts: 6789
  • Gasoline rainbow in the gutter
Re: MK1 16V CIS-E Swap Wiring
« Reply #1 on: Oct 07, 19, 22:06 »
1)  Pin #10 from the Knock Sensor Controller runs to what would be the MK2 Fuel Pump Relay, and fires the coil. Looks like that would be necessary if it was in a MK2, but from the looks of it in a mk1 it latches during cranking. Doesnít look like this pin is needed for my application. Correct me if Iím wrong.
You need this wire, it's the trigger for the fuel pump relay. The relay takes the pulsing negative from the ignition module/coil to keep the pump running.

2) A group of black wires that run down stream from an unswitched(???) 10 amp fuse, and branch off to Pin #5 on the Knock Sensor Controller, Pin #1 of the ECU, and to the common point of the Throttle switches.
That is the key-on (switched) power for the knock and oxs modules, as well as the throttle switch common.

Does this need to be switched, or can I run an inline fuse holder/10a fuse to this group of wires. Probably a better way Iím sure. If there is please let me know.
It is already switched. Circuit 15 (that these black wires go to) is key-switch on. Circuit 30 is battery direct, unswitched live all the time. Circuit 50 is starting/cranking power only, Circuit 31 is ground, and Circuit X is your load-reduction circuit that has power when key on, but not while cranking. It powers headlights, wipers, horn, radio, blower fan, and rear defogger.

3) Now these next two things is where Iím sure might work but may come across as hokey, or not particularly ideal...

3.1) O2 sensor heater: I need switched power that runs constant after ignition. I can see in my MK2 Bentley that this runs on the switched leg of the Fuel Pump Relay. In the MK1 the Auxiliary Air Valve runs off of the switched leg of the Fuel Pump Relay as well. Iím thinking that the AAV and the O2 heater are small resistive heating loads that run constantly, and would more than likely be negligible loads, relatively speaking, and are veritably the same setup that would suit the O2 heaterís needs (even has the same female connector). Correct me if Iím wrong.
Yes, you can connect the O2 heater wire to the fuel pump relay output as stated. If you're really keen, you could install an additional relay and use the fuel pump relay's output 87 to trigger the new heater relay's 86 terminal.

3.2) Pin #24 ECU: Now hereís where Iím not sure what to do. MK2 Bentley says I need switched power from the starter relay, not sure if thatís timed as it is on the same leg as cold start valve, which is my upstanding as being timed. Is this something thatís only needed at the beginning of ignition? Would I be safe splicing on to the leg of the MK1ís Cold Start Valve feed?
You need this connected to a source that only has power when cranking. Yes you could connect it to the black wire on the cold start valve.

Anyways, discussion is more than welcome. Thereís a light at the end of the tunnel, and this seems like the last major hurtle.

Cheers       
'81 Rabbit S 16VG60   |  '15 Touareg TDI R-Line   |   '96 YZF750R

g60syncro

  • Posts: 446
Re: MK1 16V CIS-E Swap Wiring
« Reply #2 on: Oct 08, 19, 17:33 »
My mistake. I have rudimentary understanding of how these things work. Doesnít help that i was looking at wiring for an 81 when, unbeknownst to me there were 9 pages for 83-84 jettas in the back of my Haynes manual, which is unfortunate because I may have been able to answer some of these questions having seen them.

Much appreciated Dallas. Thanks for the road map to getting this thing sorted.
No time for the old in/out love. I've just come to read the metre.