Author Topic: Turbo blown what to do  (Read 4276 times)

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Connor417

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Turbo blown what to do
« on: Jul 02, 16, 15:05 »
So my turbo blew. The shaft snapped and the compressor wheel is done. Pumped a bunch of oil through the engine and big clouds of white smoke. Shut it down right away but didn't know what was going on and tried to start it up again. It barely cranked over and stopped right away. So my question is where do I go from here. It only hydro locked from the starter turning it over what are the chances of bent rods? The car has DLC 1019s stage 2 colt cam and running Malone stage 3.

aba16v

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #1 on: Jul 03, 16, 12:59 »
Pull the plugs, disconnect the fuel pump relay, and crank it over to try to get any oil out. Then go for a compression test, if they're around 500 PSI you should be okay.

You'll also need this

http://www.fixmyvw.com/alh-vnt17-garrett-turbo/

Autohau5

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #2 on: Jul 03, 16, 22:44 »
I would HIGHLY recommend turning the engine over by hand several revolutions first before using the starter, to ensure that there is no tight spot that could lead to more potential damage.
'01 A6 2.7TT 6MT  |  '81 Rabbit S 16VG60   |  '16 Golf .:R   |   '05 S4  |  '96 YZF750R

Schmiesus

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #3 on: Jul 04, 16, 07:38 »
Curious as to how this will pan out.

Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #4 on: Jul 04, 16, 22:45 »
I'll do a compression test and see what turns up. Will probably still end up pulling the head. Aba you posted the vnt17. I was planning on upgrading the turbo since I needed a new one anyways. You guys know anything about the 17/22 or 17/26? Will I need anything else to run that turbo? Besides a re-tune.
« Last Edit: Jul 04, 16, 22:46 by Connor417 »

Schmiesus

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #5 on: Jul 05, 16, 07:14 »
How big are your nozzles?

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Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #6 on: Jul 05, 16, 07:33 »
Nozzles are DLC1019s.  .216

Schmiesus

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #7 on: Jul 05, 16, 07:48 »
You're probably going to want to look at going larger. I ran a power plus 520 with a gt20

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Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #8 on: Jul 05, 16, 17:13 »
The 1019s should flow a little more than the 520s from what I've read. Bigger ones aren't in the budget right now either.

aba16v

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #9 on: Jul 05, 16, 17:25 »
1019s with an 11mm pump will max out a VNT17 nicely and smoke, no need for anything larger. The 1019s have been selling like hot cakes because they work well on stock cars but support a VNT17 perfectly. They'll make good power with a 10mm pump and run fairly clean, but you can probably pick up a few ponies from the 11m pump.
« Last Edit: Jul 05, 16, 17:26 by aba16v »

Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #10 on: Jul 05, 16, 23:09 »
You recommend just going with the vnt17 then over something like the 17/22 or the 17/26? Would that need a larger downpipe too?

Schmiesus

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #11 on: Jul 06, 16, 07:33 »
More flow would be beneficial. By creating more boost and adding fuel to the equation it all needs some where to go.

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aba16v

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #12 on: Jul 06, 16, 11:25 »
I would stay clear of Kerma products in general, building turbochargers isn't shade tree mechanic kind of work, especially variable geometry turbos. The VNT17 came stock in Europe and is unmolested from Garrett.

Have never really understood the obsession with VNT17/22 and 26 hybrids, other than convenience (bolting up). You're putting a larger compressor on a VNT17 turbine, rather than scaling the turbine and compressor together as they should be. A VNT17/22 makes peak boost 300-400 RPM later, holds maybe 1-2 PSI more, and makes about 10HP more (without smoking out the entire block and over-revving the turbo with a big FMIC).

here's a list of common turbos, where they make boost, how much boost they make, their max power output, and the compressor/turbine dimensions
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/darkside-gtb-turbo-kit-for-1-9-8v-tdi-engines.html

As you can see from the VNT20, which has the larger turbine side that a VNT17/22 lacks, you'll make peak boost at the same RPM, make more of it safely, lower your EGTs, and the power gap from a VNT17/22 to a VNT20 is about the same as a VNT17 to 17/22. Why waste your time with a 17/22 when the VNT20 is commonly found on Jeeps and a cheaper replacement?

Your nozzles are good for a VNT17, the 17/22 makes a little more power but it's an inefficient heat pump with tons of lag by comparison so it needs way more fuel. The VNT17 will work with your stock exhaust and actually drop EGTs a bit, but you'd definitely benefit from a downpipe, high flow cat, and mufflerectomy. ken @ buzzken exhaust in toronto makes good systems for MK4s but you might be able to find something cheaper locally.




« Last Edit: Jul 06, 16, 11:26 by aba16v »

Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #13 on: Jul 07, 16, 16:24 »
Thanks that was very helpful. What do you think of the gt2256v. There is a guy selling one locally wth a manifold for the alh. It would need a downpipe welded up. You think that might be too big?

Schmiesus

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #14 on: Jul 07, 16, 17:08 »
Gt20 would better if you're going to aim for a non-VVT

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Commuter Boy

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #15 on: Jul 07, 16, 20:01 »
It'll be laggy compared to a 17, even with a tune.  It WILL make a hell of a lot more power once it spools up, assuming your pump can feed enough fuel to it.

Aaaaad it needs a beefy clutch.  And a bigger intercooler.  And stronger axles.  And probably a transmission upgrade too at some point.  GTB conversions get EXPENSIVE fast.

The 17 spools nicely, gives strong reliable power, bolts up fairly easily and tuners are very familiar with it.  Can't go wrong choice for someone on a budget who wants to get their daily driver on the road quickly instead of futzing around with endless tuning maps and replacing bits as they blow up and blow apart.

Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #16 on: Jul 07, 16, 23:03 »
You're probably right. I'm going to stick with the tried and tested vnt17. It's my daily driver and upgrading all those other things isn't in the budget right now. I haven't had a chance to pull the head off or do a compression test yet. It's just sitting out back at work. I have a wedding next Saturday so things have been kind of busy.

aba16v

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #17 on: Jul 08, 16, 12:43 »
Fingers crossed you don't need to pull the head, but it wouldn't be a bad idea if your gasket hasn't been done in the past/ if your belt is near due. You won't need head studs with this turbo, they're not a huge concern until 28+ PSI. You'll love the VNT17, might want to keep it on 18psi for a little bit just to make sure the engine is in tip top shape. Let us know when you want to turn the boost up  :thumbup:




Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #18 on: Jul 23, 16, 16:10 »
Pulled the head. Doesn't look good. Rods are bent and Pistons have bits in them. What do I do? Just put new pistons and rods in? Would the debris going through there have wrecked the cylinder walls? They look alright just feeling them. Get it bored and put the oversized Pistons in? Find a new engine? Burn it?

Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #19 on: Jul 23, 16, 16:12 »
This is the worst one

Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #20 on: Jul 23, 16, 16:17 »
  The worst on on the head

aba16v

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #21 on: Jul 23, 16, 20:51 »
Ouch. Long as there's no debris left that's probably usable, although obviously not ideal and a gamble. Diesels have very tight tolerances and seating rings on a well used motor doesn't always go as planned.

By the time you swap rods, bearings, rings, check roundness, hone (or at least deglaze) the block, replace valve seals etc, and put it all together, it would probably be cheaper to find another motor. I'd go for a new motor to be on the safe side, maybe rebuild that one for the fun of it and find a cheap shell.
« Last Edit: Jul 23, 16, 21:45 by aba16v »

Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #22 on: Sep 09, 16, 22:59 »
Alright! So I decided to rebuild the engine. It's a fun project. Rebuilt the head and the block got bored for .5mm over Pistons. Plastigauged everything and checks well within spec. The only thing is my rods. I have this used reconditioned set of rods. They have new wrist pin bushings and have all been balanced. But they're not coming up to the same piston protrusion. Two are at .034 and two are at .028. Those are also two short for the one hole head gasket because that specs .0358-.0393. And this I found out is because those asv Pistons are a little shorter than stock. So I'll have the block decked.  One of the rods is from a different set. But I measures up two of my old rods that o believe to be straight and they also measure up to .028. I think I'll have them re bushed and balance them to make a set. Is that worth it or do or do I just buy new ones? Also I wil need a new Malone tune when I'm done with this. Is it just a re tune or will it be a whole new tune? How do I go about doing that?

aba16v

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #23 on: Sep 13, 16, 16:07 »
I'd get a fresh set of rods for peace of mind if you're going to be putting more than double the stock torque through them. 2056 turbo (Vnt17s are a lot cheaper and work great), rod studs, head studs, etc.

You'll need a new tune, price difference between the tunes + $50 for retuning will work (plus taxes). You can run it on the stage 3 tune for now but it'll only make 18 PSI.


Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #24 on: Nov 06, 16, 22:04 »
Update. Engine is almost all back together and completely rebuilt. Getting ready to break it in and was wondering what your thoughts were on a break in procedure.

Autohau5

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #25 on: Nov 07, 16, 07:19 »
Update. Engine is almost all back together and completely rebuilt. Getting ready to break it in and was wondering what your thoughts were on a break in procedure.

Make sure the oil filter is full before you install it. Disable it from starting, and crank it for 10 seconds, 3 times, to build oil pressure. Re-enable it so it can start. Start it, let it idle for 30-60 seconds, blip the throttle a few times and listen for any odd noises. Check for any leaks. Shut down, top up oil, then restart. Run at 3000rpm until the cooling fans come on to seat the rings properly. Take it for a good drive, and drive it like you stole it. No easy city cruising; lots of back roads, high revs driving. Change the oil after the first day of driving. For the next 500km, don't baby it, don't leave it idling for long periods, and try to avoid short trips that don't allow it to warm up fully.

At least, this is how we break in the engines at work.
« Last Edit: Nov 07, 16, 07:21 by Autohau5 »
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Connor417

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #26 on: Nov 07, 16, 08:08 »
Sounds good. Any recommended special break in oils?

Autohau5

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Re: Turbo blown what to do
« Reply #27 on: Nov 07, 16, 12:34 »
Cheapest approved oil you can get for the initial fill, then whatever quality approved oil you'd like thereafter.
'01 A6 2.7TT 6MT  |  '81 Rabbit S 16VG60   |  '16 Golf .:R   |   '05 S4  |  '96 YZF750R